Plato’s Laches

Week 2: Setting the Scene: 178a-187b

Questions for discussion:

• How does the setting help introduce the subject of the dialogue? We are in a public place, having just seen a demonstration of hoplite fighting technique. Lysimachus and Melesias are members of the educated and wealthy elite of Athens. They are attracted by the teacher’s demonstration, which is an example of a wider trend: professional teachers working for a fee. The brave and accomplished grandfathers are contrasted with their sons (L & M) who rather pathetically describe themselves as “nonentities.”
• What are Lysimachus and Melesias looking for? How will they know when they’ve found it? They want their sons to have skills to act in ways that will bring them fame. Note the value placed on fame, on the good opinion of others. Is the desire for fame an elite virtue, or a common one? Lysimachus and Melesias admit that they lack such skills, and are even ignorant of which skills are needed. Will Lysimachus and Melesias be able to recognize the right answer when it is found?
• What do they think good martial instruction will do for their sons? Someone (maybe the teacher) has told Lysimachus and Melesias that learning to fight in hoplite armor would be good training for their boys. Lysimachus and Melesias have a vague sense that such training will help the boys develop into virtuous men, able to participate in warfare, which (in additional to political leadership) is a field where fame can be won.
• Why does Nicias think hoplite training is a good thing? Why does Laches agree? Do Lysimachus and Melesias have anything in common?
• How (and why) does Socrates change the topic of discussion? Socrates notes that fighting in armor was only one suggestion for the boys’ education, and that the general question, “What is the best form of education” has not been addressed. He suggests it would be good to find an expert on this question. What do you think of this suggestion? It assumes that there are experts on the question, “What is the best form of education?” Do we think there are such experts?
• Socrates says the question is about what benefits the souls of young men. 185e. What does “soul” mean here?
• Socrates suggests that improving the souls of young men is a skill that can be taught, but he denies having any expertise in that skill. Is Socrates being honest or self-effacing? If the latter, why?